Bragging Rights: Embracing Self-Promotion Out Of Self-Love With Lisa Bragg

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Claim your Bragging Rights and let your brilliance shine. It's time to break free from the shadows and discover your true potential, leaving a legacy of empowerment and authenticity. In this exciting episode, we explore the topics of self-promotion, leadership, and collaboration with Lisa Bragg. Lisa is the author of Bragging Rights: How to Talk about Your Work Using Purposeful Self-Promotion. She shares her journey from a successful career in TV to becoming a leading advocate for redefining the concept of bragging. She reveals her transformational insights and pivotal moments that inspired her to challenge the traditional norms and encourage a new approach to self-promotion. Lisa also discusses the true meaning of bragging, far from the negative connotations attached to it. Bragging is about shining and shimmering with bravery, and she teaches how to differentiate it from self-aggrandizement. Get ready to discover the art of self-promotion without arrogance and embrace your brilliance while supporting those around you. Tune in now!  


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Bragging Rights: Embracing Self-Promotion Out Of Self-Love With Lisa Bragg

It is my honor to introduce you to my guest, Lisa Bragg. Lisa is an author, speaker, and advisor helping leaders at all levels navigate savvy self-promotion that is authentic and gets results. She has literally written a book on how to talk about success. Her book is titled Bragging Rights: How to Talk About Your Work Using Purposeful Self-Promotion. It is brilliant. It was published earlier in 2023 and you definitely want to pick up a copy. Lisa is the founder of MediaFace, a Toronto-based content and consulting firm. She was also a TV reporter and anchor for fifteen years. She lives in Toronto. She's a wife and a mother, and a guardian to a 95-pound Bouvier dog. I want to welcome you to the Virtual Campfire, Lisa.

Thank you, Tony. I'm glad to be here.

I'm thrilled to have you. It's going to be so much fun talking about you and bragging about you a little bit. I love the idea of having you around the campfire and hearing some stories from you about your journey to getting into where you are and making an impact as well.

I love that it's a campfire because it's the oral culture. That's where I think about bragging and self-promotion because bragging a long time ago meant shine and shimmer. It meant to be brave. A long time ago, we did talk about being successful and sharing our success stories around the campfire. I'm happy to spread the word here with your audience and talk more about bragging and what it means.

It's going to be brilliant. We're definitely going to get to that. First, I want to shine a light on you and understand what were the flashpoints along the way that revealed your gifts into the world. I want to understand the journey you've been on. That's what these flashpoints will be. You can start wherever you like, but I'd like to take you on a journey of discovering you. No pressure, but think about the moments that had you thinking about what revealed your gifts in the world. Take it away.

My first flashpoint would be when I'm thirteen years old. I remember realizing that my last name meant something to other people. I would get that eye-rolling that thirteen-year-olds are so good at when I would talk about my success. They would say, "You're going to brag about that?" I realized my last name meant something to other people. I love gold stars. I was that student. I wanted to succeed. I thought we were supposed to show off and talk about being successful because that was what it was. Here are the rules, here's how to get those gold stars, and go get them. I realized that people didn't like that. I started to hide myself as I became a teenager. I didn't want to show that I was successful.

I then decided to go into broadcast journalism. Back in my day, it was never about the reporter, it was always about the characters in the story, so the people that I would find to interview. I always like to go the other way than my peers. Journalism is often packed journalism. You'd see in one paper or a TV show, they all have the same guests. I would always like to go in the other direction. If they were going north, I would go south. I'd like to find a different person to interview. I'd go up to somebody and say, "You are the expert. Let me interview you." Often she would say, "Who? Me? No. Go down the hall to Bob or Jim." It bothered me so much because I think you're the expert so you probably are the expert if an outsider thinks you are.

Often, they would say, "No, I'm not there yet." The people who allowed me to interview them, I would then see them do more. I'd see them do more media, get on more panels, get a promotion, and get a new job. I still to this day have thank you cards thanking me for helping them, encouraging them, and coaxing them to get on camera with me because it made a difference.

In 2007, this is another flashpoint that you can see the thread of it all. I decided to start a content company back before content was content. Back before everyone had a blog or was online with video, I was helping companies get online with video for the first time. They're subject-matter experts. Get them on camera and share their knowledge. It's always about knowledge mobilization. How can we get the stories out there to reach more people? They would see that things would happen for their own personal careers. They were there on behalf of their companies or their governments, but they would then do more things because of the exposure.

People would see them, "You are the expert, the visionary, or the leader. We should hire or bring you on." I saw that. Inevitably, on the walk to the elevator, the leader of the initiative would say, "I see what you're doing for that subject-matter expert, but how can I do that for myself? That's what started me thinking about, "What does bragging mean? What does self-promotion mean? How can we help more of us not step into the spotlight but to be seen and heard all the time and shine? I believe it is fundamental for all humans to want to be seen and heard. Mattering matters. Those are my flashpoints that brought me to where I am in writing Bragging Rights.

It is fundamental for all humans to want to be seen and heard. Mattering matters.

My head is exploding because there's so much there. You covered a lot of ground very beautifully, by the way. Many things come to mind. First of all, the sense that you lived into a name that was given to you, but in a very different way than I would've expected or most people would've expected. You saw the people who wouldn't understand that bragging is something we need to do more of. We need to own our brilliance.

One of the things I often believe about in leadership is that leaders believe in others more than they believe in themselves. By believing in them, it generates this sense of confidence and this belief in ourselves that allows us to show up and rise to that occasion. In a sense, you've been the person who shines that light on people and allows them to believe in their own abilities, and then they end up rising to that occasion. That's what I've recognized. What you shared was cool.

Thank you for that, because I do believe that. It's opposite to what we're taught, but we need to pat ourselves on the back. Bragging means talking about one's successes with pride. Pride also means self-love. A lot of us go to pride as such a bad thing, but pride also means self-love. I want us to stop and pat ourselves on the back. I know that seems hokey, but we need to start sending ourselves those love letters. When people don't give you that compliment you know you deserve, send it to yourself. Send that email to yourself, write it in your journal, and put it in your smile file or what I call your brag book.

Have those things ready for yourself because we need to start with our own self-love, self-care, and bragging to ourselves first. That's what helps us to help other people along the way. People need to hear from you. People need you. Whatever that one little spark is, whatever it is that you have to say and share in this world, somebody needs to hear that. It could be one person or it could be a billion people, but that one person needs it. That can be the chain reaction to many good things. Pat yourself on the back right now.

I'm on it. The start of thought leadership is being a thought leader to one person as opposed to worrying about being a thought leader to millions of people. Start by making a difference in one person's life and go from there. I want to shift gears a little bit because another concept came into mind as you were sharing especially the early part of your journey. It's this concept of the tall poppy syndrome which comes from Australia or from Southeast Asia, where if you stand out, then it's a bad thing. You have to shrink yourself down to get in line. The reality is that sometimes when we feel like we're too much or we're standing out too much, it can be a challenge, so we try to shrink. It's a big challenge. Tell me what your reaction is to that.

The tallest poppy is real and so many of us suffer from it. My good friend, Dr. Rumeet Billan has done some extensive work on it. It started in Australia. It was also in my research because I did international research on bragging and self-promotion. People in the UK also reported tall poppy. In Canada too, where I am located. Dr. Rumeet Billan did some more research on it and came up with some fascinating information. We do cut each other down and there's jealousy. The tallest poppy gets cut down. We want everyone to be uniform.

That's not a good thing for you as a leader to have that in your environment. It's bad if you are the person who is on the receiving end of being cut down. It's also bad for the person who's doing the cutting. If we have to think of it, a way to insulate ourselves is not to shrink because we need people to stand out. In our world, we need people to stand out and fit in. As you grow in your career, you need to do both.

In our world, we need people to stand out and fit in. As you grow in your career, you need to do both.

We also need to realize that if somebody is cutting you down, the problem is with them. If someone is complaining about you bragging like talking about your successes, it's their problem. It's not your problem. We cannot control the way people receive our information. Context matters, but how they receive it says something about them. If they're cutting you down for being successful, that's on them.

As leaders, we need to make sure that we make an environment that's safe for our tall poppies and that they feel good to grow. If we're cutting everyone down, we're making a negative environment and that's where people leave. Instead, you want to have the halo effect where you show, "We have these great people and they all have their different strengths. Let's bring more people into our fold and make them shine," instead of saying, "Let's make everyone lower than low." I think we're tired of that.

I get into this deeply in the book. We used to talk about our successes a long time ago because we had to share the knowledge of how to thrive and survive. We came into different rulers and different issues with how we are controlled, but then we got into the factory era. That's where a lot of us still sit in the factory era, where we all went into towns to be in factories. We were agricultural before, where your family knew that you were good or not good at something, “Do not give that task to Lisa, but make sure that Tony is doing that task because he's good.” Our family would see that and our grandmothers would also know what we were good at and tell everyone.

When we moved into the factory era, some of us went willingly into the factory. Some of us were forced to. That's when we ended up in a factory system and the hierarchical system that wanted us to focus on productivity, "Keep your head down. Do good work and eventually, someone will notice you. Be a cog in the machine. Do your 9:00 to 5:00." It’s all that kind of language that no longer translates into the world that we're in now, which is the imagination era. Most of us are knowledge workers, so we're about transmitting knowledge. It's not that piecemeal of the factory system. It's more piecemeal and different.

We have to change the norms that we are conditioned under, move into this new era, and accept people need to talk about their successes so that we can share our successes with them. You can then say, "Here's what Lisa is good at. She should partner with so and so, and then they'll make something new." It's about how are we here to share our values. I sometimes say how we are here of service, but I get worried because people then go into that servant-leadership attitude. There's a concern with that for me where we're not servant-leader, but you're not here to be a servant where it's like, "I'm going to ring my bell and somebody is going to come in and do the job, and then secretly and quietly go out, and we're never going to see them."

It's not about being a servant. You are here to serve, but we need to see you in that service and know your values behind it. Tall poppy is part of the whole thing. It's about, "How are you?" It is the first place to start being able to brag and talk about your successes and tall poppy if you're having that in your environment. It's a challenge.

You opened up a can of worms here. You just went into it. I want to get back into getting a little deeper into your story. Before I do, I have one other concept I wanted to talk to you about. That is this idea that if people feel like, "There are these stars. What about celebrating everyone else? What about the sense that we want to make sure there's space for other people to shine as well?"

The important thing is that when we come from an abundance mindset, we have this sense that we can celebrate everyone's strengths. It's looking for the brilliance in each person and finding space for them to all be celebrated. I think this is one of the big concepts that you look for. It’s how you can make sure that you're looking for brilliance in everyone, or shining a light on everyone in some way. Share your thoughts.

It's not a me-story. It's about me, how I'm here to serve, and then how I help other people along the way. It's about elevating other people. Instead of always looking at celebrities and elevating these people who are already in the spotlight all the time, how do we look around at the leaders in our environment or our team members and shine a spotlight on them and help them to be seen and heard? That's what it's about. As you said, the scarcity and abundance mindset.

There is room for all of us to share. It's not a Pollyanna-esque thing. It's not, "You get a trophy." It's knowing, "Here's how I'm here to serve. Let's put a spotlight on that," and elevate each other. Knowing that some of us don't always have a chance at the mic. How can we then say, "I've been at the mic quite a bit. I'm going to make sure that Susie, Sally, John, or whoever it is needs their chance too at the microphone." Make the panel bigger or make the table bigger.

We don't need to worry about those things now. There's so much knowledge out there that needs to be seen and heard, so let's allow more people into it. There are things in the book that help you as a leader or yourself to shine a light on other people. Let's sunshine on LinkedIn or whatever social media channel. Find that person in your network that you admire and hashtag sunshine or hashtag bragging rights, and allow them to be seen. When we align ourselves with people, even if they would be seen by other people as a competitor, why not become a collaborator with them?

Switch that mindset because when you're seen as a collaborator with someone who's also an expert, then you show that confidence and that security of self. Other people are going to be attracted to you because you're not afraid of saying, "No, this is my pie. Stay out, other experts." You're saying, "I'm on the level with you." You're then going to say, "That person, I feel they are a little bit ahead of me. They are where I'd like to be. I'm going to be aligning myself with them." The more we have alliances and the more that we think of collaboration over competition, the better it is for the individual and the better for all of us. You become that beacon instead of the noise. You become that signal through that kind of thinking too.

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You're throwing a gold right now. This is brilliant. It's so funny because what you described reminds me of this quote that I don't even know where it came from, but it's something that I've been living by for the past 6 or 7 years. Amateurs compete and professionals create. This element of when we come from this place that we create together, we're creating abundance. We're celebrating the brilliance in each person, but we're also finding ways to work together to create a bigger pie.

That's exactly it. I love that. That's a good thing to live by.

Coming back to your story, here you are working in TV and making a big impact, having a fun time, and enjoying yourself. What brings you to change gears? What was the shift that you had to go through to make a change in your life to do the work you're doing now?

I was fortunate. At the time, I didn't think I was, but I was so fortunate. I was one of the early people that was called a videographer. I would carry a camera. They're not little cameras that we have now, it was a pretty heavy beast and a tripod. I was a videographer. I'd go out often by myself and interview people. I had a chance to go to Stratford, Ontario, which is where Justin Bieber is from. I have a Justin Bieber story. He wasn't anyone yet. He wasn't doing his thing yet. He was on YouTube and I was there doing a political story.

He and his friends came up to me and they wanted to be on camera, "Put me on camera." I was like, "I'm sorry, boys. This is not a story for you," but we had a conversation and Justin sang to me. I'm like, "This person is going places." He told me how he had attracted all these producers and different people through his YouTube channel. I thought, "This is so interesting. What an amazing story." He was naming all the producers. I'm still embarrassed to this day because I had no idea who he was talking about. They are all the biggest names in music still to this day.

I went back to the station and I said, "There's this boy in Stratford. We need to do a story on him. He's got YouTube and he's doing this. He has a massive following and he's going to go to LA and get a producer." It was flat-out no with scorn, "Why would you suggest a YouTube story?" Pish posh or something like that. It was such a put-down. I was so put down. I was pretty much ostracized from the newsroom for suggesting a YouTube story.

I realized that day that Justin Bieber was onto something. YouTube was just a year old. It was maybe six months old, but he was onto something. He was choosing himself and putting himself out there. He didn't need me with my camera necessarily. He was doing it himself. We were entering a new era where people could choose themselves and put themselves on camera and amplify. I love that he did that. Look at him now. He's still doing music and he reached the pinnacle.

News has struggled from here on then, so I left the news to start a content company, realizing that I could help people get their stories online. I was helping corporations and different kinds of organizations, and not necessarily individuals, but it was the next step to owning the mediums. How do you take a podcast? How do you take a video, own it yourself, and do something with it? That's where I realized there's more opportunity to this than what the guardians of the status quo we're allowing us. That's why I'm always looking for, "Who's the guardian of the status quo? Who wants to keep things the same way? What's their agenda? How do we shake that up a bit because something new is coming along?" Nowadays, it's coming along so much faster than what YouTube came along as.

That's my YouTube Justin Bieber story, and then realizing that news is great. I value traditional media, but there's also room for all of us to have our own voices. That's where I often caution my clients and the people I advise to not just seek out being on a big show but to yes-and. Yes, do that, and also have your own mediums that you control and the audiences that you want to reach. On those big shows, they may not even be the audience that you want. It adds to the credibility maybe that you're on the shows, but does it drive what you want it to drive?

VCP 218 | Bragging Rights

I love what you shared. I'm so glad that we went in this direction because there's a sense of you have to continue to explore your edges and see, "What else is possible for me if I get a little more loose and see what else I could create if I didn't have the confines of the standard or the status quo?" That allows you to free yourself and see what playing with the message might look like when you have freedom.

I was reminded the other day to know the rules, but then be willing to break the rules. We're in that era, so know the rules. If you're a leader, expert, or visionary, you know the rules. It's now time to start breaking them because some of them don't stick anymore.

I'm inclined to ask if there's any other pivot point or any other flashpoints you'd like to share before I go to the next line of questions.

Those are the big ones that I can think of. It's always that I'm realizing how I keep pivoting in a way that is along my path that feels good to me. It's always shades instead of something totally different, but I can definitely look back. The self-reflection piece is critical for all of us to sit back and say, "Wait a minute. What connects all of this to then help me to move forward?" Those are all of the big flashpoints that brought me to where I am. Writing the book, I realized I didn't want to wait on it. It had been germinating and percolating. I'm like, "I need to write this book and I need to do it now." I made it happen.

That was the next flashpoint that's obvious. Why did I write this book? It's my PhD. I amassed research and I interviewed. I did all that, but it was my own way of doing a PhD and understanding what bragging and self-promotion meant, and what it means for our society now and moving forward. That's where the next one is. I might be too close to that flashpoint to give you that in-depth thinking of it, but when we talk again in a few years, I'll say that was a big pivot point for me to jump off and to reach more people in a way that's going to help them to shine brighter. Hopefully, that's the truth.

Everything about your story has a sense of honoring the past but transcending it. I often think about Ken Wilber's quote, "Transcend and include." When you look back and you look at the things that you've done along your journey, it's including aspects of what has happened in the past but also breaks through into that next thing.

When you wrote this book, it said, "I'm owning this. I'm owning the name. I'm owning what I do, but I'm also doing it in a way that is allowing other people to own their part of this." This book is powerful for that reason. It’s to say, "Society has moved in this direction, but we got to make sure we understand what we're doing with it." It's almost like giving people permission but also making sure they understand the power they can wield with that. Tell me what you've learned about yourself in this journey. I know you shared a lot of great insights, but maybe some of the lessons you've learned on a personal note that have been surprising.

My confession is I totally am my book. I am a hidden gem. I do put on that invisibility cloak. I also feel that the invisibility cloak is corrosive. Why do I put that on? I have one story in the book of Emelia Sam. She's trying to put herself out there and then she retreats. She'll do a lot of things, "Look at me, I'm here" and then she retreats. I'm the same way. Somebody would say, "That's being an introvert.” I think it’s more, “I'm an ambivert.” I like to put myself out there and get energy from other people, and then I also like to go into my cocoon, regroup, and come out again. I'm an ambivert. That's what it is.

I am my book. That was the revelation. I did feel my last name was a burden for a little while there and I realized, "Why am I thinking that?" People would say, "Your last name is so suited to so many things." Owning the pieces of you that you think are the flaws was something that I realized I can do something with that. Those are a few of the highlights though, but realizing that I am my book. It is a practice and you have to come back to it again and again. I read my book again. This is my copy of the book. It's worn through already, but I read it and remind myself like, "I have to talk about my successes, performances, achievements, skills, experiences, and wisdom. I have to keep coming back to that."

It made me realize the compilation of stories of all the people who have helped me on my way too. That was one of the big things. We are all built on the shoulders of giants, as the saying goes. I truly believe that. How can I help elevate us to that next level? How can I help be part of their structure or part of their Tetris and help them build? There's a lot that I learned from doing this exercise. Also, I had great editors with mighty swords and whittling it down to something that would help people.VCP 218 | Bragging Rights

It's a nice tight book. It could have been a lot longer, but the power of editing is amazing. Allowing myself to go through that experience with other people on the journey. I also felt very naked. I handed it to two professional friends as it was done, all the different editors that it goes through. I sent it to them and I said, "What do you think of this?" I felt totally naked. I mean naked, naked.

I know the feeling.

They came back and they had a few things that were like, "Do this. I love the story. Did you know about this one story?" I added those things in, freshened it up, and then I'm like, "Okay." Modeling Mel Robbins, her 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, who is the biggest person that I want to send this to blurb my book? When you're an author, it's important to get endorsements from other authors or leaders in the industry. I said, “If I had Seth Godin who has nineteen bestsellers or New York Times list, and this and that.” Everyone probably knows him. If not, get acquainted with his work. There are so many gems in it. If I wanted him to blurb my book, what would that feel like? 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, I sent him an ask after reading his rules because he is asked multiple times a day every day.

He came back and said, "Lisa, I would like to but I am very busy. Send along and if I have a chance, I will." Four days later, I was in an airport and an email came in, "Here's my blurb." I was that happy dance lady in the airport that day. That was an important story of me being vulnerable. Only two other people had seen it. Here, I'm sending it to this person that I have admired for so long and saying, "It's now or never. Just do it." I was ruling it and not waiting any longer to share it. How scared I was to share and just going for it and not waiting to build up to sending it to Seth, but just going for it. Fortunately, he is on the cover of my book.

That's awesome. Everything you shared was beautiful. First of all, our books are almost always an intimate experience that we write for ourselves in some weird way. We don't often say that, but it's an intimate experience around, "What would be the book that I wanted to most read?" That's why we write the book, but it's also geared towards other people, which you want them to read it. I also reflect on the fact that bragging rights and bragging, in general, is a muscle. We have to build it over time. It's going to feel odd at first or feel weird because you're not used to it. It's like a strange suit you're putting on, but over time you get better at it. The reason why is because there's fear. It's like overcoming fear.

There are so many fears. The fear of judgment, the fear that someone is going to call me on it, and the fear that I'm being arrogant. There are so many fears that come along with it because we are told not to do it. Some of us are told not to do it. Others are told to do it. Those of us who are rule followers, we hear it so loud. That's where we diminish ourselves. We go into self-deprecation. The word that we're afraid of is self-aggrandizement. We've confused bragging with self-aggrandizement. Bragging is talking about your successes with pride, and pride is self-love. Self-aggrandizement is, "I'm better than you" and that puffery. That's the ickiness that we feel that we've attached to bragging.

We've confused bragging with self-aggrandizement.

Bragging originally is shine, shimmer, and bravery. It only started meaning boastful and things like that when we became part of the factory era because they wanted to keep us as hidden gems. Also, if we're the hidden gem doing the work behind the scenes and behind the curtains, someone else always gets to look bright. That bright person does get to leave and do other things.

Meanwhile, so many people that I've worked with have toiled long and hard, waiting for their moment to be seen and heard. Somebody is going to pick them, "Just put your head down, do good work, and eventually someone will notice you." They're still waiting for that person to notice them, and then that leader left, or that client had to go somewhere else, or the client no longer is in business. We're still waiting for people to write us that letter of recommendation or we don't even ask because we think we have to get another certificate.

What all that comes to is that fear pieces that we're so afraid of perfectionism. I'll leave this and I'll say, "I stumbled on these words, or I forgot the story." Many of us wrestle with perfectionism because we've been taught very young that things have to be perfect. Don't show your work before it's ready. That's what I talk about to people. It's moments over milestones. Put it out there and don't worry about it being perfect or not. Nothing is perfect.

It's moments over milestones. Put it out there and don't worry about it being perfect or not. Nothing's perfect.

Lisa, this is amazing. My mind is exploding right now with many great insights and everything. Thank you so much. I have one last question for you. This is the question I ask every guest, so I'm hoping you're ready. What are maybe 1, 2, or 3 books that have had an impact on you and why?

I have so many books. I've been on a journey of a lot of leadership self-help books. I guess that's where I've been focusing and thinking about what other people are thinking and what challenges there are in the world. I have so many of them around me right now. It's like, which one do I choose that's going to be one that people haven't heard of? One that's right in front of me is The Authority Gap. It's Mary Ann Sieghart.

It's quite a long book. It's one of those books that I come back to once in a while. She goes into why some people have almost natural-born authority and other people have to try to earn their authority. I do quote her in my book and I did interview her about what she is thinking and her thoughts. There’s so much research she did on intersectionality. Not just gender but people from different socioeconomic levels. It's a heavy book to get into, but brilliance inside of it. That would be one book for sure.

I'm enjoying Wonderhell by Laura Gassner Otting. I know she was one of your guests when she was talking about her other book. I find that brilliant because we always stretch our goals. It's like, "What's the next thing?" As somebody who's striving and always trying to get to that next place, I want to be there. I like being in that flux, but then when you get to that place, what's next? We then set another goal. Her new book, Wonderhell is amazing too.

I could go on and on. I have a whole list of them here. I love seeing how other people have grown and their challenges. As you said, we write these books for ourselves, and then what comes of them that we know that there are gems in here that can help other people. Those would be the two right at the top that came to mind, but I have a long list of other authors to share with you.

What is your favorite Seth Godin book?

I love his blog. I love what he puts out every single day. Every single day he puts out gems. He is committed to writing every day, and I wish I had that commitment. I always think I will, and then I don't get into the habit of it. He's committed to writing, so sign up for his blog. It's a very short note, but it's worth setting your intention and your thinking around his thoughts that are so good. Sometimes they're not actually, but he puts it out there every day and says what's working for people and what's not. I love that. Many of his books come from him testing the waters, seeing what resonates, and what resonated with himself. You can sign up for it on social media, on LinkedIn, or get it to your inbox. To say which one, I don't know, isn't that like a betrayal?

It does feel like a betrayal. I keep on thinking to myself which one I like best. I've read pretty much all of them, but This Is Marketing was one of the ones that stands out to me.

I am one of those people that ruin books. You will not want the book after me. That one has a lot of highlights, so many good quotes in there, and some good thinking that's elevating us. He's been there and he's going there. What is he thinking along the way? How do we not stay with the guardians of the status quo? He challenges us with that. How do we keep thinking, "That's an old system. We need to move beyond that. Now is the time to shuffle and ruffle feathers and move things around." As we're now in this imagination era, what are we doing? Where are we going? No one has a guidebook, so why don't we be the guides and the leaders along the way? I think we have that spark that could be the beacon for everyone.

Beautifully said. Thank you so much. This has been an amazing conversation that I know is going to stick with me for a while. I'm so grateful for you coming on the show.

I appreciate it. Thank you for having me around your campfire. It's so much fun.

Before I let you go, I need to make sure that people know where to find you. What's the best place to reach out to you and learn about your world?

I'm on LinkedIn heavily, it's Lisa Bragg. I also have a website. It's I do have something there if you want. It's a tool that you don't have to have the book. It's to help you tell stories. That's at You can find the book everywhere books are sold. It's audiobook, eBook, and paperback. It's out there in the world. Come find me and hashtag anything that you want somebody to cheer you on with #BraggingRights, and I will find it. I'm constantly scrolling and seeing who has something that needs to be amplified. I will amplify and cheer you on because part of my mission is helping people amplify their voices so more people can be seen and heard.

You just created a ripple of impact right there by dropping that into the mix. Thank you for that. This is amazing. Thanks to the audience for coming on the journey with us. I know you're leaving with an explosion of insights, you're ready to go out and buy the book, get in touch with Lisa, and change the way you're showing up in the world. Thank you.

Thank you.

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