Learning The Lessons Of Leadership And Self Awareness: A Campfire Discussion With Tom Goodell


Human relationships are a complex web, and leaders can’t just apply rules of logic to these systems. Tom Goodell has made it his mission to teach lessons in leadership to people across the world. In this episode, Tony Martignetti sits down to talk with Tom as he discusses the four fields of leadership and the impact of self-awareness on leadership. Tom shares his insights on the evolution of leadership practices and why self-awareness is an important part of leadership and needs to be a focus of leaders. Tune in for more powerful stories from Tony and his guests on The Virtual Campfire.


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Learning The Lessons Of Leadership And Self Awareness: A Campfire Discussion With Tom Goodell

It is my honor to introduce my guest, Tom Goodell. Tom is the President and Founder of Linden Leadership. Since its inception in 1987, their mission has been to guide clients in establishing and sustaining leadership and cultures of high performance. Tom is the author of the book, The Four Fields of Leadership: How People and Organizations Can Thrive in a Hyper-connected World. First of all, I got to say, that's how I found Tom. I've read his book. It’s fantastic. This book provides a foundation for Linden Leadership's work.

The Four Fields methodology integrates powerful coaching methodologies, systems theory, emotional intelligence, practices of high-performance communication, and experiential learning. Tom provides executive, management, and team coaching, leadership, training, and culture-building services in a wide variety of organizations, including entrepreneurial businesses, large organizations, government education, and not-for-profit institutions.

Tom lives with his wife, Barbara, in Minneapolis, Minnesota. They have two grown daughters, Sarah and Julia, and a new grandson. He is actively involved in training coaches and facilitators in the principles and practices of The Four Fields methodology. It is my honor to welcome you to the show, Tom.

Thank you, Tony. It is a pleasure to be here with you.

I'm looking forward to digging into your story to uncover how did you come to the work that you're doing? What was the journey that you've been on? We do that through what's called flashpoints. It’s pointing in your journey that has ignited your gifts into the world. We've got the fire started. The campfire is lit. We're ready to start to dig into how did Tom become who he is.

Wonderful. It's feeling cozy already.

With that, Tom, I'm going to turn it over to you and let you take it away. Share a bit about where are those flashpoints in your journey have revealed who you are?

With the teachings of Zen, you realize that self-awareness leads to self-transcendence, which leads to awareness of others.

It's been a long and winding road. When people ask me that question, I go back to a very early experience in my life. When I was about five years old, my father taught me to play the Asian Game of Go. The Game of Go is the oldest board game. The rules are very simple, and the complexity is vast. It was only a couple of years ago that they finally were able to get a computer that could play Go at a high level. Go is a game that demands that you develop both logical thinking and aesthetic intuition. It taxes your whole brain in ways that nothing else I've ever encountered it does.

I started playing Go when I was five and played it my whole life. My father was a very eclectic person. He was a self-educated electronics technician, electronics engineer, mechanical engineer, and then he became a documentary filmmaker. I grew up with many different views of the world and ways of exploring the world. I worked with him in documentary filmmaking through my lessons in my early twenties before deciding to go to college.

I always had a deep interest in Mathematics, Science, and also in Spiritual Pursuits. Around the time I started college, I also discovered the Minnesota Zen Meditation Center, where I started studying and practicing with Katagiri Roshi, who founded MZMC. Those three threads have woven themselves through my life. The three threads are what I think of as artistic expression that is very pure creativity, logical thinking Mathematics.

I studied Biology, Mathematics, Computer Science and worked as a biochemist for a while after I went to college. What I think of is an exploration of the cell for consciousness, which is what I was doing through my Zen practice. My education in Math, Science, and my simultaneous study with Zen Master was a couple of the flashpoints, as you like to say, in my life. They brought me both to deep analytical thinking but also deep practices of self-awareness.

With the teachings of Zen, you realize that self-awareness leads to self-transcendence, which leads to awareness of others. Those were the threads that led me into my work. My early career work was around more technology-based thinking. I did a lot of facilitating process design. I met a gentleman in the ‘90s, who became a mentor of mine around looking at systems and organizations. He was looking primarily at process systems.

With him, I started developing Linden Leadership around looking at what's the large-scale view of systems inside organizations. How do we understand the whole scope of the systems that drive an organization's performance? What I very quickly realized as I was doing that, and I think this is where my Zen training started to come in, was that no matter how well we designed the logic of our systems, and the processes that we saw in our businesses, we thought of processes is very logic-driven systems. If people weren't performing well, it didn't matter very much how good the logic of the organization was.

VCP 155 | Lessons In LeadershipI also encountered organizations where the business processes were okay. They weren't right. The information systems were okay. They weren't great and yet, the organizations thrive, and they thrive because people are passionate. They trusted each other. They had a shared mission and purpose. They loved what they were doing. They grew and learned through their work. I was intrigued by that and started studying various coaching methodologies.

I studied with Newfield Network in Boulder and Strozzi Institute on the West Coast around Sematic Coaching. What I realized was that there were these two very different threads coming together looking at how human organizations perform? How can we optimize and maximize their performance? One of the threads was this tremendous tradition of logical thinking, which was the whole business process thread.

The other thread was this emerging thread that was beginning to show up in the ‘90s with Peter Senge’s book, The Fifth Discipline, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Emotional Intelligence, this explosion of recognition that we ignored the human spirit in our work. I was intrigued by that. My work was initially on more of the business process side but I was interested in the human side. I started blending what I knew from both of those into what I call human systems to work.

For many years, I've been looking at what I call human systems, which is the intersection. It goes back to the Game of Go. It's the intersection of how do we leverage our tremendous capacity for logical reasoning and also for the human spirit to be creative, intuitive and to build amazing relationships with each other. The Four Fields is the result of many years of thinking about, “How do we bring all of that together.”

A fundamental question that I've been in almost since the beginning, and it comes from my scientific training is, “What are the fundamental unifying principles of human organizational performance?” If you look at the literature many years ago and now around leadership, emotional intelligence, trust, team building, and communication, it's a Tower of Babel. There are all these different languages, terminologies and ways of looking at it.

If you google the definition of leadership, you will find hundreds of definitions of leadership. They're all good. They all look at different parts of it but they also all have differences. It becomes very confusing. Often when I began working with an organization, they'll say things to me like, “We did this training around trust. We did that training around leadership. We did this other training on team building. We're doing communications training.” It seems like we're doing a lot of things over and over in different ways. None of it is sinking up.

In developing The Four Fields, I was in this question of, “If we look fundamentally at what drives human performance, what are those basic principles from which all these other things emerge and things show up?” We can start to make sense out of all that. That's been the driving force in my work for many years. It's the foundations of the methodology that we call The Four Fields.

When you try to apply linear logic to complex problems, you just end up with more confusion. 

As you tell your story, which I think is so fascinating, the journey that you went on to get to where you are. This is a theme that I see in you, which is you're a deep seeker of the truth, what's driving everything underneath, the hidden pattern. You can't go out there and find the truth outside. You also have to go inside and outside. There's always an intersection between different things that are happening all at the same time.

It's not an intersection per se alone. It's an interdisciplinary approach that you have to use to solve a problem, which makes sense. When you look at all the different approaches people have tried to do things based on logic alone, logic will fail you. You have to use some spirituality, elements of connecting the things that are beyond logic to bring them together.

It's a wonderful insight. It's one of the things that was confusing for me for a long time. I had these two different threads of this very analytical way and a spiritual way of being, which is the way of intuition, self-awareness and compassion. One of the things that became evident to me early on was that the approach of trying to solve everything with logic and analysis clearly was failing in many ways.

These were the organizations that spent huge amounts of resources on business processes, re-engineering and they had all different terms for it. All of it basically came down to looking at the logic of the processes. When we would come in and work with them, we'd started seeing the people on the teams don't trust each other. The teams don't have a shared purpose. They don't care about the purpose. They're not passionate.

There's a hierarchy that constrains people's creativity. What I began to realize was that something that goes back to Mathematics in 1800 informed this. It's what Peter Senge writes about in The Fifth Discipline. It's this notion that there are two different categories of problems that we have. One is what we call complicated problems. A complicated problem is a problem that has a lot of parts but it's driven by logic. If we analyze the parts and the logic that connects them, that's how you design a business process from the traditional view of a business process.

You go, “What has to come in? What do we have to do to it? What has to go out?” It's all logical. It's very powerful. There were vast leaps in productivity that came from that perspective. It reached the point where we maxed it out. We had done what we could do with that. We still weren't getting the performance we wanted.

The other kind of problem is not a complicated problem. It's a complex problem. This is the whole world of complexity and chaos theory. This all started with Mathematics back in the 1800s were mathematicians realized that there were problems appearing in nature that the traditional analysis would not solve.

For example, if you look at a flock of starlings, it can be tens of thousands of birds. They coordinate with the most extraordinary grace and efficiency so that the entire flock of tens of thousands of birds literally looks like a single organism moving around in the sky through very complex, graceful moves. If you try to understand that with Physics, you will utterly fail. If you try to understand it with traditional Mathematics, you will utterly fail because of its complex problem.

Complex problems don't yield linear logic. When you would try to apply linear logic to complex problems, you end up with more confusion. Human systems, which means anytime you have a human being, you have a complex system. You can't address your understanding of it in the direction of how you want it to behave through linear logic. You'd have to get to the things that drive complex systems. It turns out the complex systems are driven by simple rules.

For example, in the flock of starlings, we don't know what's going on in the mind of a starling but we know that if we model a system, which says, “Each bird maintains a particular average distance to its neighbor birds. I think it's something about 7 or 8 inches but I'm not sure. Each bird flies in the same general direction as its neighbors, and avoids collisions. It looks like a flock of starlings, and it'd behave like a flock of starlings.” They're following some simple rules, which aren't driven by some logic.

VCP 155 | Lessons In Leadership

One of the questions I was in for a long time was, “What are the simple rules from which human systems emerge?” Out of that, I started seeing what I call The Four Fields, and I truly believe, and this is what we've seen proven over and over in the organizations we work with. The notion of The Four Fields and what I call the disciplines of The Four Fields provides the simple rules that human beings need to follow at all scales of organizations from the life of a single person up to the scale of organizations with hundreds of thousands of employees. When those simple rules are followed, performances are great, morale stays high, ethics are high, accountability is high, trust is high, and the organization and the people within it evolve and continue to grow and learn as the world changes around them.

What I love about this is it definitely makes a lot of sense when you start to explain it but there's an element of knowledge and then applicability. When you go into a company, have talked to people throughout the years, and explained to them these things that you've learned, the understandings that you've learned throughout the years, how is it that people react when they tell them, “Here's what you can do with this?” What do they do with it once they learn all these patterns and the way that teams can interact to become more effective? The applicability is what I'm coming back to, especially because not everyone is quite as ready to receive the message.

It's one that I have explored and experimented with a great deal. One of the things is typically when I start working with someone, it's because they've recognized that the things they've been doing haven't been working as well as they want. They've invested a lot. Sometimes we come in, and they say, “We need you to work with this team because this team is not performing well.” They have the construct of a team. In The Four Fields, the first field is The Field of Self. That's a person by themselves, me or you, how do I manage myself? We have disciplines for that. We say it's awareness, choice and accountability. We've got practices for that.

When two fields of self come together, they form an interpersonal field. That's the quality of their relationship with each other. That is more complex than a single person because it's two people plus what goes on between them. The next field out is The Field of Teams. The fourth field out is The Enterprise Field is to fill that picture in. When someone comes and says, “We need you to work with this team,” one of the things I very often notice very quickly is that the problem isn't in the team, it's in the interpersonal field.

The relationships of the people on the team are not healthy or at least not all of them. If they're going off and doing a lot of team-building but they're not doing work around what makes interpersonal fields or interpersonal relationships work well, they're not addressing the interpersonal fields on that team, then they continue to invest resources but they're pointing it in the wrong direction. They're pointing it at the team as a whole, as opposed to recognizing there's something within the team, which is these interpersonal dynamics that are not working well.

The question about, “How do they learn this and what do they do when I start sharing this?” One of the things I do is they don't typically share as broadly as I'm sharing here now. I don't get the opportunity to do this, so this is a joy for me. Typically, what I do is listen very deeply. This is where some of the self-awareness practices for me come in because I do like to talk about this. Sometimes I have to bite my tongue and listen for a while. They've created a context where I can say, “Have you thought about it this way?”

When they talked to me about the problem with the team, I could then say, “What do you see happening on the team?” Sometimes that will reveal to me that there are these interpersonal dynamics, but I'll say, “Let me watch the team.” I'll observe them, and I'll go, “Did you notice that Mary and John seemed to have attention between them.” They'll go, “Yes, that's been a problem for a long time.” Right away, we're starting to get there.

If all you have are ideas from a two-day workshop, those are going to fly out the window the minute you get emotionally challenged.

I listen, and then I help them see the elements of the four fields that are particular to the problem they have. I think the important, powerful question is, “What do they do with it once they start to get and see it?” One of the things I always tell people when I start working with them is, “This is not a short program.” I've worked with so many companies that have been frustrated by all their investments in their human development programs is that they're typically 1 or 2-day programs.

I tell them, “I can do a great two-day program for you and you'll be happy with it. If that's all we do, in three months, nothing will have changed.” It gets to the notion of practice. It goes back to this notion that for so long, the trajectory of human organizations has been entirely analytical and process-driven. I can teach you a bunch of concepts in two days. They're great concepts but your ability to live those concepts is not going to happen just because you saw some PowerPoint slides and you learn the ideas.

What we have to look at is if I'm in a conversation with someone and they get very confrontational and aggressive with me, I can have some good ideas about what I'm supposed to do in that situation. At the moment, I'm going to get defensive, and I may get aggressive. The ideas are not driving my behavior. My emotions and my physical response to this person are driving my behavior. If all I have are ideas from a two-day workshop, those are going to fly out the window the minute I get emotionally challenged.

I have not only learned some concepts but I'd done some practices that enable me to go, “I got hit with some aggressive attack,” rather than let my physical aggression start to rise up and my emotional response takeover, I'm going to take a breath. I'm going to take another breath, and I'm going to make sure my feet are flat on the floor. My arms and legs are uncrossed, and my body is centered. I'm going to notice my emotions. I say that the center of emotions is acceptance.

Can I accept that this person is in the emotional state they're in and that they are saying and doing the things they're saying and doing? In acceptance, I create a connection with them rather than opposition to them. Those are centering practices. From a place of center, I can become curious and compassionate towards this person. No matter what aggression they're coming towards me with, what they're bringing to me, I can return to them with curiosity and caring.

From that place, what I experienced when I do that is, at some point, they start to get it that I'm on their side, and now we can move from conflict to collaboration. That takes a lot of personal development for me to be able to do that. That's not something I learned in a two-day workshop. I might learn the ideas but the capacity to stop myself before I react and to recenter physically, emotionally, and my thoughts, that takes training.

What you described is powerful. There are so many things that popped in my head around this. Given the space between the stimulus and the response around this, which is important for that space to be there, it allows for things to slow down and integrate. That's why quick fixes don't work. You need the time to let it settle in. Slow is fast.

Ultimately, it’s what's going to create a long-lasting impact. One of the things that came up for me too is, this is a connection back to your youth that I noticed, which is when you're working with people, it's almost like you're the documentary filmmaker who’s looking at people, and you're saying, “What am I observing in this?”

If I was to make a movie about these people, what is it that I'm seeing about this that I would want to tell the story about this situation? When you step out of the action, go to the balcony and look at what's happening in this situation, there is something about that allows you to listen with the intention of understanding what's going on here. I think that's powerful. That's part of what your gift is. At least what I'm observing is this ability to be the listener who's seeking what's truly happening here.

You’ve said it better than I would've said it. I work a lot with leaders around what I call awareness and attention. The way I talk about it, awareness is the ability first to be self-aware. The discipline is in the field of self or awareness, choice, and accountability, and we say that choice follows awareness. I can only be a choice if I'm aware of something. If I notice that my body's getting tense and my emotions are going to be defensiveness, I have a choice about what I do with that. If I don't notice it, those simply drive my behavior.

One of the things we know from neuroscience is that the cognitive part of our brains, our minds, where we do logical thinking and analysis, which is where so many in the business world like to think they do all of their thinking and decision-making, that part of our neuroscience, neurobiology, runs somewhere between 30 and 70 times slower than the physical and emotional centers of our brains. Our thinking is always catching up with them.

VCP 155 | Lessons In Leadership

The ability to notice sooner and sooner what's happening to my body, in my emotions gives me the ability to go, “Take that breath, accept what's happening emotionally so I can get centered. From there, I can be a choice instead of being driven by my response.” Awareness is first that powerful capability of being aware of myself so I can manage what I call my inner state. Your inner state is the confluence. It’s composed of your body, your emotions and your thoughts. I call your physical mind, emotional mind and analytical mind. Your inner state is a constant dialogue among those three.

The ability to center gives you the ability to say, “I can be a choice about my behavior, and through my self-awareness and centering, I become much more aware of what's going on for the other person.” If the other person is anxious, distraught, defensive themselves, instead of being triggered to respond in exactly the same way, I can go, “I can see you really care about this. This is important to you. I'd like to understand that more,” and then I can ask questions.

A lot of the training is self-centering and then curiosity. In awareness, we regulate our interstate, manage ourselves and create a connection to others. We become aware of them. Awareness is very broad. It’s like what you were saying the documentary filmmakers were sitting in the balcony, watching what was going on. I train leaders to do this.

To sit in a meeting and not get so much caught up in the content of the meeting but to notice the context of the meeting, which is the dynamics, how are people behaving? What's their body language? How are they responding to each other, who is withdrawing, who's entering in? It’s a broad field of awareness. As they notice that, attention is where you focus in. It's where the cognitive part starts to kick in more. I noticed, “Marianne and Catherine are in sync with each other but John's out of sync, so maybe I need to go, ‘John, what's happening for you now? What are you thinking?’”

Maybe Bill is an introvert, and he tends to sit back and not engage but I can see that he's thinking about something through my awareness. I noticed these dynamics. I bring my attention to the place where they can most powerfully influence the meeting. As that starts to take its shape, I'll step back to awareness and, “Now what's happening and how's it going? It looks like Jack withdrew. I wonder what's going on with Jack? Bill was talking and he sounded very angry. How do I bring that?” It's this dance of awareness and attention, and that is something that comes out. I think that comes out of the human spirit, not out of the cognitive processing mind.

The unit of work is no longer an individual person. The unit of work is teams and relationships.

I love what you described. There's an element about this, which is if you're leading a meeting, it's hard to be cognitive of all the things happening at the same time. There's a challenge around this balancing of being the person who's talking and sharing your opinions but then creating the space between sharing and then noticing. It's important to think about that.

This is the complexity piece. There was a time, maybe 50, 70 years ago, when you could run an organization just on logic because you did the same thing day after day, year after year. It took eight years to develop a new product. During those eight years, you kept doing the same stuff over and over again. You wanted to do it efficiently. Now anyone in the world can compete with anyone else in the world very quickly. The numbers of connections and relationships among people have become vast, and connections and relationships are what create complexity. Stop and think about this. If you have 10 people in a meeting, there are 45 relationships in that meeting.

That's complex. There are 45 different relationships. Each of which has its dynamics going on in the meeting. If you try and understand that through logic and cognitive thinking, it's overwhelming to the human brain. It's like the starlings or the person sitting in the meeting. If you sense the meeting and use your body and emotions to sense what's happening in the meeting, you know very quickly where you need to put your attention and where things need to shift.

This leads to something that I think is a profound change in the last 30 or 40 years, which is that the unit of work is no longer an individual person. The unit of work as teams and the unit of work is relationships, which means we can't say, “I come in and put this person here, and this person here, and then they're all going to do their thing. It's fine.” It's, “How do we build that many flocks of starlings of these ten people on this team so the dynamics among those human beings are strong and healthy and that team can thrive?”

That's going to be somewhat unique with every single team and every single relationship. It brings us back to the physical and emotional intuition that says, “These two people are not working well together. Is it worth the investment to get them to work together? Should I simply put them into different relationships? If it's worth the investment, how do I do that? How do I coach Susan? How do I coach Carlos to develop?”

For them, that can be a gift because the way you develop two people have a thriving relationship is, you work in their fields themselves first. You go, “Susan, what happens to you when Carlos comes and speaks to you?” She goes, “He always seems to think he knows what he's talking about. He doesn't care what I think about.” You go, “Susan, what happens to you when Carlos shows up?” “I get anxious, and I get angry, and then I start talking fast.” “Maybe some centering practices would be useful.” What happens? I had an example of this. I worked with a CEO in an international finance organization. They were headquartered in the US, offices in the UK. They had a guy running the whole European operation.

VCP 155 | Lessons In LeadershipThe guy running the European operation was new to that position. He'd come up through sales, and the CEO would come into my office. He's arrogant, not respectful of me, and doesn't listen to what I think. We're always in conflict on thinking I might have to fire him. The horrible part of that is the guy built a huge part of our European operation. If he leaves, he's going to take a whole lot of customers with him. I'm sore between a rock and a hard place.

I'd been working with him for a while. He really had some good self-awareness practices. We've worked on what happens to you, we'll call this guy, Frank, when Frank walks into the room. He was getting better at getting centered. I said to him, “What do you think Frank experiences when he walks into your office?” He just stopped and said, “I've never thought about that before. I imagine he's scared, anxious, and feels like I'm not going to listen to him.” It was like this light bulb went off for him that, “I'm part of this system of two people and what creates this dynamic between us.”

I worked with him and what he started doing was when Frank came in, and he started asking him questions. He started talking to him about how much he wanted to build a solid relationship with him. He used his awareness and attention pieces to shift the quality of that relationship. An amazing thing happened because Frank was not performing that well as the head of all of Europe. Frank ended up self-selecting to go back to doing his sales role because he recognized that he'd always wanted to be at this high level of the executive team and doing this.

I think the reason he was so defensive and angry when he would come into the CEO's office was that he felt like he was failing and couldn't deal with that. Through his awareness practices and the building of this relationship, he got to the point where he said, “This isn't the place for me. I was thriving back when I was doing what I did before.” The awareness, attention, and the ability to center saved a huge potential cost to that organization in losing this guy.

It shows you that awareness is so important as a starting point. We can have this conversation for hours. I think it's so amazing what you shared so far. I'm going to shift to one last question in the interest of time and that is, what are 1 or 2 books that have an impact on you and why? I'm intrigued because I know that it's going to be something interesting coming from you.

If people weren't performing well, it really didn't matter very much how good the logic of the organization was.

I might share three if that's okay. One is a book called When Things Fall Apart by a woman named Pema Chodron. She's a profoundly wise human being. She's American-born and raised in a traditional American household, who ended up becoming a Tibetan Buddhist monk. She runs a monastery up in Canada. She has this profound insight into how deep I will say self-awareness practices, I could also say spiritual practices free us to be our best and to perform our best. She brings that deep Eastern wisdom to the very pragmatic Western problems we're all facing now. That book has been profound for me. I share with many of the people I work with, and they are invariably grateful for having found it.

Another book is Thinking in Systems by Donella Meadows. She was a brilliant mind. She passed away before the book was completed, and her husband and colleagues finished the book for her. It teaches us without getting into a whole lot of complex Mathematics and Science. It reveals to us the whole notion of complexity and the things I was talking about how complex problems pose fundamentally different challenges than complicated problems. Our Western and business world is oriented towards looking at everything like a complicated problem. Thinking in Systems helps us understand why that doesn't work and how a different kind of thinking can work.

The third book I would mention is a little more esoteric but I think it's a very powerful, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, which was written by Shunryu Suzuki, who was the first Zen Master to take root in America. He started the San Francisco Zen Center, Tassajara Zen Mountain Center, Green Gulch Farm Monastery and has had a huge influence on bringing awareness and mindfulness practices into this country. I've got quite a large shelf full of books that I find inspiring but those are three that stood out for me when you asked the question.

First of all, amazing selections, and I was so intrigued when you offered up a few of these. Thinking in Systems is one that I've heard of ironically enough. I do have a real passion for systems thinking. I have not read it yet. I'm going to have to dig into that one. It's going to be a little more intense for me to read through that but I'm going to read that. Pema Chodron, amazing, When Things Fall Apart. I can't thank you enough, Tom. This has been a gift to have you on the show. I'm thrilled that I was able to share you with my readers. Before I let you go, I want to make sure that people know where to find you so they can learn more about your work. Where can people find you?

They can find me at LindenLeadership.com. There are links you can connect anywhere there. My email is Tom.Goodell@LindenLeadership.com. I love hearing from people. If people hear your show and have questions, I would love to hear from them. I think it's so important that more and more people are in the conversation and the thought stream of how we create thriving organizations at a time of considerable challenges for the human race. Tony, it's been an absolute pleasure. I loved talking to you. I always do. I'm so grateful that you gave me this opportunity.

Thank you. By the way, anyone who wants to check out Tom's book, it’s on Amazon. It’s a fantastic read. Please go pick it up. Thank you again. Thanks to readers for coming on the journey. That's a wrap.

Absolutely. Thank you, Tony.

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About Tom Goodell

Tom GoodellExperienced coach and facilitator with a demonstrated history of helping business leaders rapidly address challenging problems and improve the bottom line. Skilled in Coaching, Communication Skills, Conflict Resolution, Team Building, Organizational Development, and developing sustainable cultures of high performance. #Leadership #Teams #Culture

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