Redefining Success By Creating A Value-Based Business With Rimi Chakraborty

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The profit-driven corporate world can be brutal, especially when it overlooks the heart of the business: its people. Rimi Chakraborty had a moment of awakening while working in a corporate environment. She found her ground and started looking at life based on her values, redefining her metrics of success. In this episode, she joins Tony Martignetti to share her emotional rollercoaster journey towards becoming a purpose-driven serial entrepreneur, where she combines traditional leadership with creative and emotional intelligence. Rimi also talks about the creation of MINUVIDA AZORES and their transformational retreats and leadership workshops. Through it all, Rimi highlights the power of being a value-based business, transforming not only your life as an entrepreneur but the people along with you—from the staff and their families to your clients. Follow along in this conversation and discover the benefits of staying true to your values in business. Join Rimi as she tells us more about it along with her work at ROOTsilience to help women take responsibility for their health and wellbeing.


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Redefining Success By Creating A Value-Based Business With Rimi Chakraborty

It is my honor to introduce you to my guest, Rimi Chakraborty. Rimi guides companies and individuals to bridge traditional leadership with creative and emotional intelligence. A purpose-driven serial entrepreneur, Rimi finds success at the intersection of health, happiness, and balanced living. We all need that. She holds an MBA from MIT Sloan, an engineering degree from the University of Pennsylvania, and has nearly 25 years of training and experience in yoga, mindfulness, and energy healing.

She provides leadership development consulting that focuses on whole-person health, fostering, enhanced employee engagement, morale, and general well-being. She has brought her innovative tools and teachings to Fortune 500 companies, private companies, universities, and high-performing individuals. She lives in the Azores in Portugal at her lodge and learning center where she leads transformation retreats and leadership workshops. I'm heading there. She has a book coming out soon. It's called Rise Beyond Resilience to ROOTsilience. I can't wait to pick up my copy. It is truly an honor and a pleasure to welcome you to the show, Rimi.

Thank you so much, Tony. What an honor to be here.

We're going to have so much fun. I can't wait to unwind your story and your journey to getting to where you are now. We're going to talk about this cool word, ROOTsilience, that is rolling off my tongue. On the show, we cover people's journeys to getting to where they are through what's called flashpoints, these points in your journey that have ignited your gifts into the world. As you're sharing your journey, we will pause along the way and see what's showing up. I can't wait to find out this beautiful person in front of me who has arrived at a beautiful place. I want to know what revealed who you are. Take it away and show us.

Thank you. I love the idea of having you sit around our campfire because we have a very beautiful bonfire space here at our lodge. I'm picturing you sitting here with me, and I know you will be here soon. One of the stories that I want to share that provides a meaningful flashpoint to what I would call 1 of my 3 big lives thus far is this. Let's go back to circa 2014. I was working as a Senior Vice President at a management consulting firm on my way to making a partner.

I was doing all the right things. I was winning all the awards and the promotions. I had brought in this major Fortune 100 client, which was a big deal for my firm. It was a small boutique management consulting firm. Our company would work with mostly technology firms to help them with location strategy. We would ask them, meet with their C-Suite team, and figure out where's the best place that met their values for what they were looking for in terms of location.

In this particular scenario, they had asked us, "Where's the best talent?" This was back when Kendall Square around MIT was booming. A lot of the companies were focused on Gen Z talent, "Where are the Millennials? Where do we need to be?" Everything was about talent. We asked about financials and scenarios that were within acceptable ranges but off we went plowing away, and as I always did, burning both ends of the candle, working hard toward something that I truly believed in at the time, which was to help this company hire good people and add more capable talent to the workforce toward something meaningful to this company.

We made our presentation, which went well. I was pleased with how it went. I was the lead presenter. I had also been doing a lot of the analysis with my team. At the end of it all, the question boiled down to, "What's the ROI? What's the Return on Investment?" While we had their financial metrics abided by them, and we had gone within and well above the savings that they had looked for, all of a sudden, this new metric was placed, which was this arbitrary, "How quickly are we going to earn our money back?"

It was something like 7 to 8 years. It was a headquarters move. If you know anything about real estate and commercial real estate, a headquarters move is a big financial investment. It provides you with an amazing opportunity to be where your talent is. This conversation is very different since the pandemic, but the company ultimately said, "If it's less than a two-year ROI, we're not interested."

I had worked my butt off for months tirelessly. I had been burning both ends of the candle. Not to mention I had been developing some major health conditions that in retrospect I realized were directly caused by that burnout from that type of work. Nobody cared about anything other than the profit alone. That was the one metric that then came to light when it came to making a decision.

It was at that moment that I felt purposeless. I felt sick to my stomach. It was a very visceral feeling because I had been on lack of sleep, and I had cared about this. I had put a lot of my passion and my self-worth into this project, which a lot of high-performing leaders do. It was crushing and collapsing. I felt so meaningless. I wondered, "Who am I? What am I doing? Why am I here?"

Those questions are ones that everyone seems to ask at some point during their lives maybe multiple times. That story you shared is so powerful because we put so much meaning into the work we do. We're humans. Maybe at that moment in that day, they're like, "It's to meet the metrics." It's almost like they don't care about you or the effort you put forth, not even like, "That was great work." It was like, "It doesn't meet the metrics. What's for lunch?"

They didn't care about the things that they said they cared about, which sounded good like culture, workplace, community, and people. That was what hit me.

Tell me. What happens next? This is an amazing moment, and you felt crushed. You started asking these questions. What did you do with all that?

Meanwhile, my now-husband who is from the Azores, which is where I am now, which is an archipelago of nine volcanic islands in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, if anyone has never heard of them, and a total paradise, proposed. We were planning a destination wedding. At that destination wedding, I visited his homeland for the first time and was blown away.

I could not believe the raw beauty, the raw nature, the volcanic aliveness, and the food. Quickly, this idea started to surface, "What are we doing with our lives? Why don't we do something here?" When we had the idea to get married, it was 2012. This was right when Airbnb was taking off with this concept of lodging people in a way that was like hosting friends and connecting them to experiences.

We had this lingering feeling of, "Let's buy a property here." When this horrible meeting happened, that was when I thought, "This is more than a destination wedding. Let's also look at what our life looks like if we live based on our values." That was a huge change in my entire life, one I never could have imagined. We started to look at how business combines our passions.

Let's look at what our life looks like if we live based on our values.

My husband loves food and connecting to food. He also is a hiking guide and was always interested in leading hikes. I am also a yoga teacher. I've been practicing yoga for years now. I wanted to connect people to a sense of themselves that was beyond exercise and something they did on the side. We came up with this concept. At first, it was discovering and feeling. Discover and feel the Azores, who you are, and what's important to you. That has evolved since we started the business back in 2015 into elevating consciousness and living, not for you, but to recognize the interconnectedness that is among all beings.

First of all, I'm taken away by the way you described that. To connect to what happened here, originally, you had your value all wrapped up in what other people thought that you needed to do or you should have done. You have a beautiful reframe or the sense of saying, "How can you reframe the way I look at things? Maybe I don't need to accept the way things are." Asking those questions and seeing a different way becomes expansive.

I was very much focused on external metrics of success back then.

It doesn't make it easy. I'm sure there were some challenges, "We're going to do this. Is this going to happen?"

I was scared out of my mind. That's another story entirely.

You start to get driven by this idea, "This is going to connect me to a whole new life for me."

A lot of it was that I started to reach these metrics of success that I had chased after most of my life. I went to good schools. I got good grades. I did all the things. I started getting promoted. I started getting these big salaries. I found myself always looking for more. It was like a dangling carrot that was right in front of me but never reachable. I watched my other colleagues who are great people and who I grew to love. I cared about them, but they were miserable. I could see that. You see your colleagues when you work with them in such a close way. I knew I didn't want that lifestyle. I knew I didn't want to keep chasing.

A lot of it was my husband because he is from here. He grew up in a place that is so connected to nature. It has come from a very different economy than what we have in the US. He was nudging me. He would always ask me these existential questions when I complain about whatever I was complaining about. He would say, "What's important to you? What matters?"

That was everything because then I got to what is important to me. I had all the things, even the money, the title, and the prestige. I still felt restless. A lot of my friends would work hard and play harder. We had this horrible habit of getting wasted on weekends and networking with clients. We were networking with CEOs, CFOs, and bigwigs. That involved a lot of drinking. It was constant unhealthy habits that took a toll on my health.

It comes back to what you're talking about. You're connected to consciousness. This was an unconscious burnout where you didn't know what you were doing at the time because your environment was supporting that. I often say that our environment shapes us. Your husband was brought up in an environment that shaped him into a person who is connected in a different way.

I have to ask you about this because there's something about this particular shift that you will react to. I always say that the cost of your new life is your old life. Tell me about how you disconnected from your old life because I'm sure there are a lot of elements of, "This is my old identity. How do I let go of my old identity and shape a new identity?"

I love that saying. That's fantastic, Tony. I learned it in a way that was smashed over my head because I had to learn it this way. What happened was we started looking for a property. This was on the sly. I didn't tell anyone. I only told my closest friends because I was concerned that I wouldn't get my big bonus at the end of the year if my company knew I was leaving. We ended up finding a property, and that was a long story. We had a few fall through, as anyone who's looked for a property. Add to that an international property search. It wasn't even online.

In addition to preparing our wedding planning, which was hiring the DJ, catering, and such, my husband was also looking for property. We didn't have enough on our plates with the wedding. We were also planning this business. We ended up getting a property out of foreclosure. I'm sure it was divine guidance. Our business's name is Minuvida. Minu was my aunt. That was her inheritance. When she passed away in 2008, she left me with her life insurance policy. Ever since I had it, I knew I didn't want to put it in my bank account. I wanted to honor her life. Vida is Portuguese for life. It's about living your dreams because she enabled us to live ours.

We got the property. That was a godsend. I'm sure she had a lot to do with that from the other side. It was an abandoned villa that needed a ton of work. It was a jungle. It was falling apart. It was a mess. It came down to us doing this massive renovation project. We had then done the scenario analysis that I did for companies with the worst case, best case, and most likely. I did all the things that I knew how to do. We were banking on government incentives, which was a huge part of our capacity to do the project self-funded. That was a big thing. We didn't look for outside funding.

Long story short, we didn't get a penny. It's a very long story. It was technical. It had nothing to do with our project. It was luck as luck would have it. Suddenly, I was in a position where I had no job. We had spent our entire life savings, which I thought was a lot, but when we started spending it, the bills came in because we had started construction before we had the approval. Everyone said we were a shoo-in to get the funding. We had no jobs. Money was running out. Nobody cared where I went to school or what degrees I had. Your question is about how I let go of my old life. It was stripped away in an instant. This happened all within the first six months of living here.

I had a total freakout, "What did I do this for?" It was crushing. I remember it was a hard time with my husband. I was angry with him. I blamed him, "What did you get me into?" It wasn't his fault. We were doing it together, but at the time, I was so angry looking for an outlet and so stuck in this idea that we don't have any of the metrics that show that we're successful. Everything is going wrong. Looking back, I see it as a necessary lesson, but while I was in it, it was rough. I don't know how else to say it.

It was rough, but what ended up happening was we started to make our decorations. Instead of buying them, we started building them up piecemeal. Instead of finishing the whole property and opening at one time, we finished segments of the property and opened as we went along, which was a much more sustainable way to run a business, especially if you're starting something new. For example, we first invested in a Jeep. We started running hiking and food tours.

Every single person that we met would see our property under construction. To us, it was this eyesore, but they could see our dream. They were so excited. Many of those people ended up coming back and being our first guests. Without knowing it, we were creating a pretty big pipeline for our clients to come and learn about the market while being in it. Rather than doing a bunch of studies separate from it, we got right into it. That was a huge wake-up. We finally did get through construction. We were able to self-fund it. It took a lot longer than we thought, but we opened in 2017.

VCP 215 | Value-Based Business

This story is so powerful. It's a great origin story because there's an element of embracing constraints and seeing how that becomes something that can then move you to a different place. If you had done it the normal way, maybe you wouldn't have the exciting passion that you do have that comes across. That is cool. In 2017, you opened up something like this and then realized that right around the corner is something booming that we will probably get into in a moment. Your whole journey has been about managing an emotional rollercoaster like a lot of people who have ever started something big or something new, especially coming from another career. It's an emotional rollercoaster. You're doubting yourself and thinking, "Am I on the right track? Is this the right move?"

It was more education in those eighteen months of that unknown period. What was going to happen felt like an eternity. That was more education than I had in my MIT Sloan business school education, but it was all part of it. I talked about how there were three lives that I've had. One of the things I should say is when we started Minuvida, our principles were very much based on our values. This was right to my earlier story where I felt like it was all about profit.

We were effectively running a bed and breakfast. It's not a huge business. It's not a "sexy business," but it was one where we got to live our values, meaning we focused on transformative experiences for our guests, "How can we connect them to this place? How can we connect them to themselves? How are they taking something with them from their experience?" These were our metrics of success. We needed to be profitable to continue operating, but that wasn't the only metric.

VCP 215 | Value-Based Business

We also looked to hire full-time staff from our local neighborhood, which was something unheard of in this business up until this point because most people would look at this as, "If I do everything myself, I'll make more profit." This scarcity mentality exists in so many businesses. I had seen it in these huge companies, and I was seeing it in our micro-business.

The lesson was, "How do you build the top line, not focusing on reducing expenses?" For example, as we hired full-time staff, we hired a guest manager, a full-time innkeeper, and a full-time gardener. That enabled us to focus on the experience side. We started running retreats and leadership workshops. We were getting to focus on what we were best at, not being bogged down by the nitty-gritty.

The people you're hiring become part of the experience as well. You get to have them be in a situation where they can teach others about their trade. They're part of what they do on the premises and how they bring the experience even more elevated. That is a beautiful thing. Something about what you shared touched a nerve because sometimes we go, show up, and feel like, "Here we are. Let's churn and burn and create this business," but when you feel like you're part of a community, the community rises with you.

Many people in our industry see high turnover rates of staff. There's this common complaint that people don't work hard or people don't work well enough, but knock on volcanic stone, we have had the same staff for years. We are so grateful. It's because it's very much because we are a value-based business, and we are looking at how this business affects them and their families.

It's part-time work, but they get full-time jobs because realistically, that's what's fair in this economy. We are happy that the work gets done. That's what matters. That philosophy has built trust and loyalty in an industry where these little details are so important to hospitality. These are crucial. This keeps us out of the weeds. This keeps us out of those annoying conversations that take away from our ability to be innovative and what has led me to my next life.

Let's proceed. Let's go there.

As you alluded, when we started our business in 2017, we had no idea the pandemic was coming. I remember that at the start of 2020, we had a sold-out year. It was our third year in business. My husband and I were both very pleased with that and looking forward to it. The screeching halt came when Trump announced the travel ban between Europe and the US because we had a bunch of American groups coming over for retreats. I remember it was March 16th, 2020. Everything shut down. We put our life savings into this business. As you recall, we didn't get funding, and we haven't quite saved up again. We didn't get back. I said, "Is everything over?"

I remember being panicked as I'm sure everybody was for different reasons. I remember that we have been through worse, not getting the funding and support and having my label and sense of self-worth completely stripped away. All I had to do was go back to the old journals that I had written in. I find it an incredibly therapeutic practice. I recommend it to anyone, especially because we do revisit themes in our lives from different perspectives as we evolve. Looking at those journal entries reminded me that we have been through worse, "We can get through this."

We revisit themes in our lives from different perspectives as we evolve.

I already had the idea to start sharing some of the business lessons that we learned in our business with my former clients. I had never considered online teaching because it wasn't a thing before the pandemic, not the way it is now. What happened was I started this course called the Mindful Business Leader, which was the story of how we got over these major challenges in our business as entrepreneurs, people, and a couple and then how those stories could then lead to specific practical tools and ways that other people could implement those teachings into their day-to-day lives. That course became the foundation of what is now my leadership consulting work.

In that process when I was working with different people, I was teaching a class called Self-Regulation in a Time of Crisis. I would never think that course title would be in my repertoire, but I taught this class to the University of Toronto to a Master's in Biotech program in April. All these old connections that I had started coming back. I ended up meeting an incredible woman named Samantha Anderson who's my Cofounder of ROOTsilience, this revolutionary women's framework. She was a guest at Minuvida in years past. She and I had been planning a women's retreat together. She's a functional medicine health coach. I was bringing yoga. We were both bringing these leadership exercises.

What happened was we both realized that we were feeling similar things. We felt like we had to hold it together for everyone else and that we were the ones that everyone was looking to. She's a coach. I was doing this work and leading courses yet we both felt that we had no space to be like, "How do we get through this? We're also grieving and freaking out." We discovered that the main practice that brought us back to the center was a recognition of our unique science of imbalance.

I had a tendency to get into doing mode, "I have to do this. I'll do this." There are never-ending things to do when you're an entrepreneur, as you know, Tony. I would get into doing mode whereas Samantha went in the opposite direction. She would have brain fog. That was her sign of too much. She couldn't see straight. She wasn't able to make sense of things. It was being forced to stop. My doing eventually made me stop because it led to burnout. We started being honest with each other about these signs and recognized that there was a deep connection between every person's unique signs of balance and imbalance and the chakra system, which is something we had both studied.

VCP 215 | Value-Based Business

I used to hate my name because it was so different and strange. Everybody had to have it spelled out a few times. Even then, it was wrong. Chakra is the same root as the chakra system, which are the energetic wheels that exist based on the same sacred text that gave rise to yoga and meditation. Samantha and I built a framework around the chakra system connecting our character traits with our signs of balance and imbalance.

We might know that there's a connection between when we're stressed and what those signs are that we get sick or we get brain fog or headaches, but this framework now gives you a tool to know, "Where do I go first? What do I look to?" We pull together the healing foods, mind-body integration, which are types of yoga, breathing, and meditation practices, and leadership exercises that help to bring you into balance so that your journey to well-being isn't so overwhelming and all over the place.

First of all, I'm overwhelmed by all the things you're sharing. There are so many great things. I also see this real connection that we have to see the wholeness of who we are. It's not just one thing that solves all problems. You have to look at the holisticness of the food and how we're showing up. It's not the one thing for every person. A lot of times, we listen to someone's advice and take their advice, but they're only giving us advice based on their experience. Be careful. One thing that's interesting about this is that we have to make sure that we integrate the things that work for us. Sometimes we have to be mindful of our awareness, "Who am I? How am I showing up? How does my particular body type or my design create this connection?"

That's what we're so excited about. This is the book that's coming out. This is the focus of where I am now. This is what I'm calling my third life or my third big pivot. Instead of going along with the newest fad or looking for the magic bullet or the fairy godmother that's going to save us, we can take responsibility for our health and well-being. We can take an active role, work with our health providers, and start to make sense of and become literate in the language of our body, emotions, and characters like the way we behave.

We can take responsibility for our health and well-being.

It's amazing. This is where I wanted to get to. It's talking about the concepts of the book. One of the things that I wanted to ask you about in terms of the book itself is beyond what you've shared. First of all, collaborating with somebody is challenging, but what have you most excited about this book?

What has me most excited is that it provides a new path to leadership for women. It's a new path to leadership, one that doesn't put success, health, and well-being in different buckets. It's one bucket. We don't need to put our health at the expense of success. People will say, "I like how much money I'm making. I'm not willing to change that for my anxiety or my depression." That's what they're saying. You don't have to choose. You can be happy and financially well-off. We do explore money. That's a root chakra issue that we put in that chakra. We look at these different aspects. That excites me because it's a new path for leadership for women.

Even though I'm a man, I will be reading this book. I can't wait to take it in. I hope there's a gateway here for all genders to appreciate.

We chose to start with women because if you look at all the statistics, women are still behind on the leadership ladder. Women still make $0.81 on the dollar compared to men in the United States. Women only make up less than 10% of senior or CEO roles around the globe. This is a major issue. When we looked into it and dug into why this is the case, what we found was that there wasn't a path to leadership for women, one that enables women to manage what typically is many roles being a wife, a mother, and a caregiver at times that typically fall on the woman in the family. How can a woman be a leader and have soft but firm boundaries to manage her personal life, especially at a time when work and personal life are very blended?

We started to look at women first because women have more empathy than men, which is statistically proven. Scientifically, they have shown brain scans of how the neurons in women's brains work, but it also makes women more susceptible to diseases like Alzheimer's and anxiety. Health effects are different for women than men. We're starting with women, but Samantha and I have already decided that we are going to be having an addition for men because there are also unique issues for men that come up as we look at health, character strengths, and our leadership behaviors that will also give men a chance to look at how they can be holistic and whole-people leaders.

I can't wait until that second edition comes out. I will still read the first one because I am always looking to expand my understanding. There's one more question about you. I want to come back and understand your journey. You've shared a lot about your learning and things that have exposed you to this work, but is there anything that you haven't shared yet or the lessons you've learned about yourself that you want to share?

A big part of your show is to get behind the scenes and the stories that make people who they are. I've been to the depths of my darkness, which is a big part of my ability to be who I am and teach what I teach now. What I mean by that is everyone has times in their lives in the dark when they felt alone or not enough. I had wonderful parents and a great childhood, but when I got into adolescence, my family broke down. There was a divorce that led to alcoholism. It was in those early teen years when a lot went wrong. A lot of it was me asking for attention in all the wrong ways. If you can believe it, I was in a gang. I did drugs every single day of my eighth grade. I was suspended and all these horrible things.

I consider myself making it not necessarily because of my accolades, but because of my joy, my happiness, and my ability to live a life aligned with my values. I bring up this background because I hope it shows people that you don't need to be defined by what happened to you. You don't need to be stuck in anyone else's expectations of you. You can be who you want to be, but it does require excavation of those difficult places when you are ready.

You don't need to be defined by what happened to you. You don't need to be stuck in anyone else's expectations of you. You can be who you want to be.

That's the key thing. I wasn't ready. A lot of the work I've done has been in the last few years, which was years later than that time. I learned firsthand what it is to forgive and let go. These experiences were far more informative to who I am and how I think than any degree, one-off experience, or retreat even. I hope that gives people a sense that they can do it. There are many qualified people to help you. I hope people do because then we come back to our essence and light.

I'm so glad I asked this question because what you shared was the gold of this entire episode. I mean that because the reality is that our measure of success is not defined by what we think it is. It's based on how far we have come from where we were and how we can grow. Our ability to grow is so remarkable. Anyone out there has to realize that they can be anything they want to be if they're willing to get uncomfortable to experience all the emotional range that's possible out there. I often say this quote, "If you are willing to feel everything, you can have anything." The reality is that your marker of success or your ROI is your ability to get uncomfortable, experience things that you never had experienced before, and continue to push through those things.

I love that you brought it back to ROI, Tony. That was awesome.

I'm a recovering financial person. I have one last question, which is very different than what we have talked about so far. What are two books that have had an impact on you and why?

This is a great little story. My all-time favorite book is The Bhagavad Gita. It looks like you've heard of it. During the pandemic, my dad was in Pennsylvania. I'm in the Azores. I had a friend who also had the same copy of The Gita, which is the translation by Eknath Easwaran, which is the best translation of The Gita. We decided to read the book together as a book club. It was March 2020. It was at the beginning of the pandemic. I love this book because it is a guide to life. It asks questions like, "Who am I when I'm awake versus dreaming versus death? What is the soul? Is there a soul? How do I be a good person? What is the point of working? What are the fruits of action?"

It says, "Do not work for the fruits of your action and work for the wisdom of the welfare of the work that you're giving, the joy that you're sharing, and the gifts that you're sharing." It's such a simple read, but in a book club, you break it down. You have a chance to ask questions. There are tons of resource materials on it because it is so simple. At a time when it felt like everything was falling apart, we were able to get to the essence of things. That's a big reason why I was quickly able to get over the crushing defeat of the pandemic in our tourism business because I knew that we had been through worse before. This book was it.

I love what you shared because, first of all, I read it a couple of thousand times and do recognize that there are so many different translations. It is powerful when you look at the wisdom of it in the different times you read it and the different parts of it. It has been recommended many times in the show. As you can see, that's the type of people I resonate with.

It gave rise to Hinduism. It's important that it's a book that is relatable to anyone. It's a philosophy book. That book started us off on a world religion sacred textbook reading club. We then read The Dhammapada, which is the Buddhism one, Tao Te Ching, The Talmud, and The Perennial Philosophy. We need to go back to some of these ancient texts because they have a lot of wisdom. If we can get away from the division of, "This is right. That is wrong," and if we can read things as wisdom, this is going to change the way we look at knowledge.

It's very brilliant. I love what you shared. You made me think about another book I read, which is called Soul Boom by Rainn Wilson, which sounds hilarious because Rainn Wilson is a guy from The Office, but he wrote a book about understanding religions and spirituality in general. It's an interesting read. He talks about all of those different texts. It's a great listen.

I'm going to write that one down.

I didn't want to steal your thunder, but that was amazing.

I'm so glad that you dug in. It is such a joy to share around this beautiful campfire on this starry night.

I can't wait until we do it in person. It's going to be great. Before I let you go, I want to make sure that people know where to find you. Where's the best place for people to learn more about your work?

The best place is we have a free leadership assessment map, which goes into the ROOTsilience framework I spoke about. That's just at That has the leadership map. You can also check out my work and my place here in the Azores. Everything is at

Thank you again for being here and sharing all of your amazing knowledge, wisdom, stories, and everything. Thanks to the audience for coming on the journey. I know you're leaving with so much to take in. Reach out and expand the journey.

Thank you, Tony.

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